no press coverage at all. that's the kind of commitment to haiti that we want to see from our public officials and former public officials and we didn't get that with sarah palin. >> jonathan alter, always a pleasure. good to have you with us tonight. thanks. >> thanks, ed. tonight in our text survey asked, do you think that the republicans will ever compromise with president obama? 8% of you said, yes. 92% of you said, no. vikings and giants tonight. the technical crew here in new york, they're all a bunch of giant fans. i'm still rooting for brett favre. in fact, i want him to come back next year. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. senate down, house to go. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris

matthews in washington. leading off tonight, now the hard part, the big tax deal brokered by the white house and senate republicans has just hit the 60-vote threshold. that's the magic number to beat a filibuster and head toward victory. so now the tough part in the house. can the democrats and republicans in that body deliver the 218 votes needed for that big package of cuts and income taxes, payroll taxes, added to of course a 13-month extensions of jobless benefits. that's our big story tonight. part of that story is that showstopping appearance of president obama with bill clinton in the presidential briefing room. how much bang will the scene of the big two have on fellow democrats? this is the most vital political alliance in the country, after all. and certainly rules the democratic party. will it keep the democrats together in the strong winds of this debate? plus, a shot across the bow of the health care bill. a federal district judge down in virginia ruled that a key part of the bill, the requirement that we all buy insurance, is

unconstitutional. well it's not end of obamacare but if the republicans get their way it's certainly the beginning of the end. and with the republican right and the democratic left making all of the noise these days, what is the political middle have to say for itself? could there be a movement there as well? midpoint between the tea party and the most activist progressives? we'll ask two center-leaning republicans who were elbowed aside by right-wing activists. and finally, some guy up at yale has come up with the top five political quotes of the year. they're all on "the sideshow" and they're all pretty bad. we start with the tax bill, senator michael bennet is a democrat from colorado. senator bennet, thanks for joining us. you just came into this senate -- or just actually been voted in, i should say. tell me about this vote today. it looks like you've got the 60 votes to beat philly buster to get cloture. it looks like you're going to get the vote. what put it together? >> you know i was home this weekend, chris, by the way thanks for having me back, and i was shopping with one of my little girls and we went to macy's and there was a democratic senior who runs a

democratic club there, who said how are you going to vote? i said i'm going to vote for it. and she grimaced a little, and i said, what's wrong? she goes i don't like these tax breaks but i said yeah but if we don't pass this, three weeks from now, 2 million coloradans taxes are going up and we'll have not have unemployment insurance. so what put it together? i think that the people went home and heard that people reacted to that and says you know what, that doesn't sound like a bad deal which is what she said to me. >> that's a good story because let's look at this new number. i'm actually amazed by this new number. the "washington post"/abc poll finds that 69%, 7 of 10 americans support the deal. now the interesting synchronicity between the parties, 68% of democrats, basically the national average. 68% of independents, basically the national average. or the little premier of support from republicans at 75%. now, senator, everybody knows republicans feel they've got a little better of this deal because they were holding up everything to get it but not that big of a differential here.

>> and obviously, i haven't seen the cross tabs on the poll but i bet there are two things animating that. one is, people saying it doesn't make any sense to us in the short term to see taxes rise for everybody and we're glad -- >> you mean go up. go down. >> taxis we don't think that it makes sense for taxes to go up for everybody. and also, i think people are happy to see that there's an instant in time in this town when people are actually willing to work together. which -- which is what i heard for 22 months on the campaign trail. and republican crowds and democratic crowds and in between, they're sick and tired of everybody screaming at each other and they'd just like to see something get done. >> what do you make of the noise level, though? i mean, i hear it on the show with the people that i have to argue with. it does steam me that the people at the points, at the polls left and right starting with tea party and then of course you have senator moynihan's theory of the iron law of emulation where the other side starts to imitate the other side.

we know that that happens but it seems like the middle does get blanked out of the discussion. >> i think that's true. and i think what has to happen is that we've got to elevate the policy discussion here. look, this is one vote, it's an important vote, but it's one vote. what we really need to be doing is casting our eyes forward, and saying what are we going to do in the way of comprehensive tax reform? what are we going to do to create a compelling story for the american people and for our trading partners around the world that we're going to dig ourselves out of this deficit? and i think if we do that hard work what we're going to find is that the people that are polarizing on either side are going to have to come to grips with these stubborn facts that we're going to have to deal with, and that's what the people in my town hall's told me over and over again what they want us to do. >> what do you make of this judge -- i've got to get to this last point, i'm sorry, senator. it's all on the news late tonight that a district court judge, the lowest federal bench, has decreed that the individual

mandate, the requirement that everybody buy health insurance, is unconstitutional, according to him. what do you think this argues for the bill that made barack obama famous? >> well, obviously, i'll have to read the opinion. we think it's constitutional. everything that my guys have looked at suggested it is, and this basically turns on you know whether or not the federal government has within its power, the ability to mandate people to buy private health insurance. and we'll see as it gets litigated in the courts. i'm confident at the end of the day that the courts are going to say it's unconstitutional and to answer your question directly, you think what you'll hear is people who are opponents of the bill use this as a further pretext for trying to repeal it. i don't think that had any legs before this opinion was reached. i don't think that it's got any legs now. >> okay, senator michael bennet, by the way, congratulations on your big victory this year. you were definitely going against the wind in this country. congratulations. >> well, i appreciate it. >> let's go to senator, let's go

to bob green stein, he's one of the people that i have trusted for years the founder and director of the senate budget priorities. and by the way if you want to know who this guy is, he's the guy that everybody goes to for the dunkin heinz seal of approval. if the budget decisions are the right ones. you're a liberal, a progressive, where do you stand on this package of tax cuts, extending the tax cuts for everybody for two years, cutting the payroll tax by two points, a lot of other things, as well as the extensions of jobless benefits, how does it all add up to you? >> well, chris, there's some very positive aspects in this package but there are also some really unsound aspects to the package. clearly, extending unemployment benefits, critical. in the absence of the package probably wouldn't have gotten an extension for more than three months or so. also this hasn't gotten enough attention. it has a critical extension for the next two years of really important tax credits, tax reductions for millions of low and moderate income working families with children. millions of kids out of poverty.

>> it's refundable. >> it's refundable tax cuts. >> and that means that you could actually get a check from the government. >> and the republicans wanted to let that die like it did with a minimum wage mothers with two kids would have lost $1,500 a year even though she lives on $14,000 a year but on the unsound part, you know, here we are, we had a presidential deficit commission a couple of weeks ago called for things like, reducing social security benefits and medicare benefits for elderly widows with incomes as low as $20,000 a year because of fiscal problems and we're talking about extending tax cuts that average $100,000 a year for millionaires, and on top of that, a real egregious change in the estate tax that would only benefit the estates of the 1/4 of 1% of the richest people who die, and this tax, additional tax cut, the republicans insisted on is worth an extra million dollars per estate for those top estates. now what happened here, as i

understand it, is the white house said, we don't want to do this additional estate tax cut and the republicans said, fine, then we will not agree to extending any of the refundable tax credits for working poor, and low income working families. so how do you add it all up? positives, negative? >> this kind of horse trading goes on behind the scenes. this was done, as i understand, by joe biden. he went over there, the vice president, he had to deal with mcconnell. >> i think that senator kyl was heavily involved in this as well. but you know, how do you do a bottom line on this? to me, there are two tests. test number one, compare to what? if the deal goes down now, what happens, i think if the deal goes down it gets relitigated in the next congress because no one in the middle of 9.8% unemployment wants all the middle income tax cuts to die. and if it gets relitigated in the next congress, i think that the odds are that all of the

adverse elements of the package remain. maybe even get worse. and the positive aspects of the package get diluted. >> i heard that argument, bob. once, in other words, once they get control of the house and it looks like they'll numerically hold the senate. in terms of voting on this issue of extending the rich people's tax cuts, they had a majority in both houses. they would jam through the tax increases or tax cuts for the rich and give the democrats nothing which opens the big question why the republicans agree to this deal? >> well, the republicans obviously wanted to continue the high income tax cuts. they loved getting a further revisration of the estate tax but what both sides are looking at is 2012. so if you ask me on balance how does this deal play out? part of my answer is, in five years we'll kind of know for sure. here's what i mean by that. let's suppose that the the end of two years in 2012, president

obama says the economy is somewhat better now, we're doing budget cuts, education, all of these other things, i will veto any further extension of the high income tax cuts or the weakening of the estate tax, takes it to the country and maybe wins on that. then we've got all the positive stuff for the next two years and this will -- this package will create over a million jobs. >> well, you're the best news this president's had h. we have to go. >> if it gets permanent all of the high income stuff and then it's a floor but you're ruling is yes. >> my ruling is yes. >> okay, bob greenstein. i have to tell you the moral authority for people in the progressive movement that i've worked with all of these years. thank you. used to advise us when i used to work for tip o'neill. coming up bill clinton gave president obama his tax deal a seal of approval. we've talked about the numbers, the issues, the values involved, let's talk about the coalition. we're looking at right there, the pure politics of this thing. dinner! [ garth ] we get double miles every time we use our card.

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well, new 2012 poll numbers are in and president obama is losing support in a new marist mcclatchy poll and now mitt romney would tweak him out or beat him out 46-44%. although the margin of error. president obama does best against the rest of the republican field of course. he beat huckabee. that's a close one but still under 50%. he does his best against, no surprise, sarah palin. easily defeated him one time, halftime, alaska governor 52%-40%. the widest spread that i've seen there. the president is losing support among liberals right now as he trackings to the center but he's not yet picking up those all-important independents. my belief, it'll take a few weeks. he'll come out much better than the way he's ended these few weeks. ports breast health, centrum silver ultra women's.

i just had a terrific meeting with the former president, president bill clinton and i thought given the

nact he resided over as good of an economy that we've seen in our lifetimes that it might be useful for him to share some of his thoughts. >> share some his thoughts, what an understatement. welcome back to "hardball." that was of course president obama on friday after meeting with former president bill clinton. here's president clinton at that press conference talking about the tax discussion he had with the current president. >> so, in my opinion, this is a good bill, and i hope that my fellow democrats will support it. i thanked the republican leaders for agreeing to include things that were important to the president. there's never a perfect bipartisan bill in the eyes of a partisan. and we all see this differently. but i really believe this will be a significant net plus for the country. i also think that, in general, a lot of people breathe a sigh of

relief that there's probably been some agreement on something. >> what a brilliant political assessment that is. a sigh of relief that somebody's get along with somebody but what's this strong support tell us about the obama/clinton coalition that's leading the democratic party and since it's the governing parties. chuck todd. political director. mark halperin for "time" magazine, msnbc. as hard as it i will let you two guys talk because you want to let you know. your assessment of the senate vote right now, the fact that they've already voted cloture. >> this was always the low hurdle, the easy hurdle to clear. they've got this and you heard dick durbin say, because the president negotiated this vote with the senate. everything is n his entire presidency so far has always been about trying to get stuff through the senate. don't think that dick durbin and harry reid, certainly were more looped in than house democrats. >> okay, let me go to mark, the question of this clinton coalition with the offset for

months. i mean, we all know this, we all watch the same thing, the most powerful reality in the country right now is the democratic party's united as never before, despite this kerfuffle this week, they are united if you look at the numbers. 80%-some support. what does it tell us about bill clinton and president obama? she well, in terms of interpersonal drama, bill clinton was on friday as he's been throughout this administration extraordinarily supportive in public and in private with the president, giving advice to people in the administration, having a lot of his people populating key jobs, and in the press conference, showing obama, you know, people may talk a lot about the strategy, the clinton strategy from '94. he showed obama a lot of tactics that are going to be required for obama to navigate through next year, to keep that support from the base, but also get things done like he did in this case with the republicans. clinton's the master at the tactics and the strategy. >> well, here's more of bill clinton, the former president, giving advice to president obama. let's listen. >> mr. president, i get the

feeling that you're appear to be here commenting and giving advice than governing. >> well, i had quite a good time governing. i am happy to be here, i suppose when the bullets that are fired are unlikely to hit me, unless if they're just ricocheting. no, i'm glad to be here because i -- i think the president made a good decision. and because i want my country to do well. and i mean after '94 election, i said the american people and in their infinite wisdom they'd put us both in the same boat so we're either going to row or sink, and i want us to row. >> so smart. he's basically in there, it seems to me, because a lot of the people, not all of them, who've been criticizing president obama in the democratic party were really clinton supporters in the beginning. >> it is a pattern with that, particularly with am some of these louder critiques of this. paul krugman is the best

example. but there were some others that were pretty anti-clinton. let's not forget, you know it's sort of weird, everybody made a huge deal out of bill clinton supporting the president's deal. and i think it had been bigger news had he not. >> but had he not shown up. >> we had nobody from the left. we had nobody from the left of the, you know, this way. it wasn't as if president clinton was -- so i don't know. this does feel like one of those moments, i think we're enamored with it in the media. >> i am enamored with it, i love pictures. >> i think there's always been people, a lot of kool-aid drinkers. >> you're so sophistication. >> no the whole obsession with the shiny metal object that has the clinton name on it. >> why i love, mark, your thought. the fact that president obama walked out of the room and left bill clinton there, was that a sign of confidence that bill clinton was going to carry on his agenda for the next 20 minutes and his self-confidence that he didn't have to be there if the president was there. didn't have to worry about him being shown up. >> i think those things also and

he knew what it was happening and he was a little bored and didn't want to be a bystander. chuck is absolutely right, we're all obsessed with this big political theater. why? i think that it mattered. into the framing of the usu. for those house democrats. not about nancy pelosi and other house democrats digging in, but about the fact that bill clinton had blessed this in a way, that led to the senate vote and i think it will eventually lead to a house vote that'll be successful. that circuit breaker i think was vital. the weekend would had been a lot different had it not occurred. >> and let's remember and you bring up a good point, mark, because let's remember what the picture, and i joked with a white house staffer earlier that day, i'm like, hey, you going to give us anything on this clinton/obama meeting? because other than that, i got about eight hours of bernie sanders tape to start running on air. so the of half kidding, half joking. and then you know they bring out the big dog. elvis comes into the building and guess what bernie sanders, his show ended up getting -- >> here's president clinton, though on his party. let's listen.

talking about vermont of course. >> a lot of them are hurting now and i get it and you know i did 133 events for them. i believe the congress in the last two years did a far better job than the american people thought they did at least the american people who voted in the midterms and i went to extraordinary efforts to try to explain what i thought had been done in the ways they thought were most favorable to them. but we had an election. the results are what they are. the numbers will only get worse in january in terms of negotiating. >> you know it used to be working in politics that anybody was out of the business for a few months or a couple of years and certainly the ten years he's been out, couldn't write his speech, couldn't keep up with where here's ago. is totally in tune. it's like he never left the music. he's there right at the cut. >> well, he's been in the middle of it. and look, part of it, i think at first he stayed in the middle of it. you know, because it was motivating, to try to help

hillary clinton's political career and he was her chief sort of adviser. but he came in and says you know i spent an hour and a day studying this economy. >> i believe him. >> i believe him on that and probably spends an hour a day finding out what's going on with arkansas politics and california politics and florida politics. >> mark, your thoughts, as well, because i think his touch now is back to perfect. i think he was off touch obviously 2008. it was a very difficult time to have your spouse running, you couldn't be the candidate. you had to be the enforcer. didn't quite click. your thoughts about how he's doing now? >> a lot of times when i would run into him in 2008, he would say i'm rusty and it's true a lot of politics have changed. the internet, so much of the technology now that drives politics who were not around when he was a candidate. he still as rusty guy he's still better than everybody else and he's clearly not really engaged in the politics of all of this when he ran -- when he was helping campaign for other democrats in the midterms. >> right. how does he connect with the net roots, that point, mark? does he help them support obama,

who are very disabused, or rather, disappointed with president. a bit to his left. is he going to help bring them aboard or soften their criticism or what. >> some but not all of them, but i think what he does really well, and you saw in the clip that you showed, he talks about this all of this stuff with a sense of poise and a sense of humor and a sense of patriotism and optimism. again, that's a series of tactics of this president, the current president, would do well to adopt. >> it sure would. >> it doesn't totally passive eye the roots but it does give them a counterbalance and argue it and push forward. the president is bigger than the net root. sometimes this president gets trapped into going head-to-head with him and going down had his level. clinton rises above it in a really big way and a powerful way that thanksgivinothing in os can match. >> well said. up next, from second amendment remedies to witchcraft, we've got the best political -- actually the worst political quotes of the year and they belong in the "sideshow." okay, now here's our holiday gift list. aww, not the mall.

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back to "hardball." now to the "sideshow." first, open mike night st. petersburg. this past friday, former kgb boss vladimir putin showed his softer side at a charity fund-raiser where he played piano and later covered domino's great hit "blueberry hill." ♪ on blue berry hill and until ♪ ♪ my dreams came true ♪ >> what a small world. the host of hollywood folks, sharon stone, goldie hawn, gave a standing ovation. the most notable quotations of 2010. we at "hardball" only karpd about the politic's part so a look at the top five political quotes that made the list.

at number five, gordon brown's teachable moment, the then-british prime minister got into a heated exchange during the height of the campaign with the british subject aimed about immigration. were picked up by a live microphone. brown's party ended by the way by losing at a landslide. you only get in trouble for saying what i actually believe as bad dazz. at four a pitch out of left field. speaker pelosi in march pushing for the passage of health care reform. >> that we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it. >> wow, we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what's in it. a way from the fog of the controversy. that was a full quote. but the shortened out of context sound bite however was the one that became famous or infamous, as you'd have it.

rounding out top three, sharron angle with her, as of yet unexplained push for second amendment remedies. >> i hope that's not where we're going, but you know if this congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those second amendment remedies and saying, my goodness, what can we do to turn this country around? >> it's so lady-like, those second amendment remedies as if she's not talking about gun play. comments like that help bring harry reid back from the political grave and brought her down to the grave. in the runner-up spot a twitter message from sarah palin pushing conservatives to block health care. quote, don't retreat, instead reload. i've still got to ask why do the right keep talking about gun play, mama grizzly? and at number one, you guessed it. christine o'donnell in that most memorable campaign ad of 2010. >> i'm not a witch. i'm nothing you've heard. i'm you.

>> impossible to dislike her, impossible to vote for her. there you have it, proving that whatever else you can say about american politics this year, it's definitely not all scripted by consultants. that's for sure watching that list. but anyway we're waiting for the president to come out and make a statement on the senate tax vote today. it's overwhelming, it's now 80 votes yea to have debate on this. in other words, to move towards passage. only 11 nays and as i counted only one republican, ensign of nevada voting against it. the other votes, those ten parts against it in addition to his are negative. anyway we have chris cillizza joining us right now. chris, this votes looks like -- here is the president. let's go to the president direct. >> -- at this hour, the united states senate is moving forward on a package of tax cuts that has strong bipartisan support. and this proves that both parties can in fact work together, to grow our economy and look out for the american people. once the senate completes action

on this bill, it will move over to the house of representatives for its consideration. and i've been talking with several members of that body, i recognize that folks on both sides of the political spectrum are unhappy with certain parts of the package, and i understand those concerns. i share some of them. but that's the nature of compromise. sacrificing something that each of us cares about to move forward on what matters to all of us. right now, that's growing the economy and creating jobs and nearly every economist agrees that that is what this package will do. taken as a whole, the bill that the senate will allow to proceed does some very good things for america's economy and the american people. first and foremost, it is a substantial victory for middle-class families across the country who would no longer have to worry about a massive tax hike come january 1st. it would offer hope to millions of americans who have lost their jobs through no fault of their

own, by making sure that they won't suddenly find themselves out in the cold without the unemployment insurance benefits that they were counting on and it would offer real tax relief for americans who are paying for college, parents raising their children, and business owners looking to invest in their businesses and propel our economy forward. so i urge the house of representatives to act quickly on this important matter. if there is one thing that we could agree on it's the urgent work of protecting middle-class families, moving uncertainty for american businesses and giving our economy a boost as we head into the new year. thanks very much, everybody. >> let me go to chris cillizza right now. chris, that's an overwhelming vote developing in the senate late today over 80 votes for this compromise it looks like, heading into the final votes. >> i'm not terribly surprised by this. i think -- when you see a person like al franken who is pretty

you know, a liberal, he may not be bernie sanders, but he's definitely a liberal in general opolicy. when you see him vote for it, and in his statement he essentially echoes the president, which is i don't love these policies, i don't love extending the bush era tax cuts but i don't want taxes to go up on middle class minnesota families. you seem to get a sense of the log is starting to roll downhill on these tax cuts. look, i think that you saw chris van hollen kind of the lead budget voice for house democrat over the weekend, essentially concede, oh we may change something here or there, but this is going through, chris. look, they want to get to the new s.t.a.r.t. treaty. they want to get to some these other things. and frankly, let me just point out and make a plug for our own poll "the washington post"/abc poll 69% like this tax cut compromise. >> overwhelming poll, devastating. >> chris, people don't go against things, politicians don't go against things that 70% people. >> "washington post" was dead right on it. this looks like a good compromise both around 68%.

you can't beat in. we have to go now, chris, but thanks for that assessment. stay with us by the way. when we return a federal judge down in virginia rules that the key provision in the obama health care bill is unconstitutional. republicans are loving it like george -- he's going to run for -- trying to make a comeback on this baby. but it's still not over. it's got to go the appellate level. [ male announcer ] 100 potato chips or 100 pringles. both cost the same, but only the pringles superstack can makes everything pop! ♪ ♪ whoa-oh-oh-oh

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welcome back to "hardball." a federal judge of virginia has struck down a key part, in fact, the key part of president obama's health care law. the individual mandate, which requires us all to buy health insurance. two earlier cases in federal court dealing with the portion, that portion of the health care law upheld that portion. so how damaging will this ruling in virginia be to health care reform and how politically

helpful the republicans will it be to those who want to kill it? chris cillizza's managing editor of postpolitics.com and an msnbc contributor. and ken vogel's a senior reporter for politico. chris, i know that people like george allen who lost down to jim webb down in virginia are just gloating over this thing like today. >> yeah. >> they're hoping that they can say that this was a disastrous vote, unconstitutional in its nature, and therefore the senators who voted for it acted unconstitutionally. i mean this is a real blast from the right. >> chris, it is. one other name to throw out there ken cuccinelli the state attorney general. he's the one leading this lawsuit. this is a guy who's very, very conservative who's talked about running for office. he was the stock exchange now. talking about running for governor of the senate. my guess is he's boosted by this by the republican ranks. but you mentioned, look, three rulings. there are 25 legal cases about this law. we've had three rulings. two from clinton-appointed judges in favor, one from a george w. bush-appointed judge, today oppose. this is preceding largely on the

partisan lines that we thought. obviously health care -- the debate over health care evolved to a republican fight. you know, look, this is going to the supreme court. i mean this is one step of many, one important thing, though, that the judge today a conservative-appointee judge didn't say, he did not say that injunction that the structure's being put in place to make -- to implement the bill should be stopped. so some democrats actually said, look, all things considered that's not the worst solution we could have gotten out the legal system today. >> so what do you make, ken, of the fact that had is a bush appointee, and he obviously has some contacts with -- of consulting firm called -- what's it called, campaign solutions, he's invested in a republican political consulting outfit. is that significant? will that distinguish the importance of this call by him, this vote, his decision that it's unconstitutional? >> i mean, democrats certainly hope so, chris, and they're pointing to that. this firm campaign solutions' not just a prominent republican

consulting firm but it did work for ken cuccinelli the attorney general of virginia who brought the case and when that contact when that relationship came to light it was kucheneli who suffered the relationship, meanwhile liberals are saying, hey, this judge should are recused himself from the case entirely. kind of missing the point because of course all federal judges are appointed by someone and usually come, at least to some degree, through the political ranks before they get those appointments. this guy's no different. and applying chris' logic that we've seen democratic appointee judges rule in favor of, upholding the health care reform law, and the first republican one today ruling against it. you've got to think there's a potential, if this gets up to the supreme court where it -- which is seems likely to do, where you have a conservative majority that has lean toward state's rights and against government regulation that there's a real risk here for president obama and democrats that the supreme court could see it like this judge. >> and, chris --

>> let me ask you about this political piece of this. >> yeah. >> i mean, i don't know many people who invest in political consulting firms as a lucrative operation. it seems an odd thing for a federal judge to have his fingers even if it's just big money. it looks like he's making $15 a year so he must have at least 100,000 bucks into this investment. why does he want to be involved in that if he's a federal judge. >> chris, i think -- let me just reiterate ken's point which i think is the important one. these are appointees. whether -- i'm shower he probably doesn't want to be affiliated with it at this point because the left's made such an issue out of it, and used it to kind of raise questions about his judgment more broadly. but these are people who at times, not always, but at times dabble in politics. so you believe i don't know that it's that surprising but to your political point i think we have to separate out. there's a legal track this, this is going to take that's headed to the supreme court and to ken's point we don't know what will happen but you know conservatives are semioptimistic

and also a political track that relates to president obama in winning the issue politically. you've got you know in "the washington post" poll. 52% oppose it. the white house believes as time goes on in advance of the president's re-election campaign, people see that the scary things the republicans talked about won't come true. that those numbers will get better for the president. but that political track is very important too and the legal and the political, they're kind of on both parallels. kind of matter to another but not that influenced by the other. >> you know, ken vogel, back in the great depression when franklin roosevelt came to office he had a contend with a conservative supreme court. i believe the nra the national recovery act at one point, unconstitutional. this could be history-making if the court goes all of the way and anthony kennedy joins that conservative majority and makes it a majority, and shoots down the major legislative achieve. of a president. >> that's right and we've already seen a very adverse

airal relationship between this administration and the supreme court. we've seen it most recently and most acutely on the citizens united campaign decision where again the decisions invoking this idea that the government regulation was impinging upon a constitutional freedom, in this case, in that case the first amendment ruled in a way that the obama administration very publicly disagreed with. >> that was a terrible decision. ken, wasn't that a terrible decision? >> in fact on the 2010 midterms. >> international corporate money, everything thrown into our politics. we have enough problems with corruption without bringing all of those interest group money, all of that money, pouring into campaigns on behalf of international trade that benefits other countries. the potential here is horrible. anyway, that's my view. chris cillizza, thanks for sticking with us. ken vogel, thanks for your insights. up next with both republicans and democrats moving further to the extremes, is there room in the political center for a new centrist political movement?

we have two republicans who lost out to the right, charlie crist and bob inglis. let's see whether or not they are to say. they were at that big meeting in new york called no labels. an spr from a mile away... while going shoeless and metal-free in seconds. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. now this...will work. [ male announcer ] just like you, business pro. just like you. go national. go like a pro.

well, more republicans are voicing their criticism of sarah palin, retiring senator kit bond saying -- wow. and a similar sediment from christie todd whitman, she said i don't think that she'll win nationwide. i mean she was governor but fact that she left office before even completing her first term is well that's just not an attitude that i think is necessarily in the best interest of your constituents. bond and whitman the latest members of the republican establishment's anybody but sarah club. the creativity, the innovation, there's definitely a tie there. one thing our scientists are working on is carbon capture and storage,

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breaking news. nbc news has confirmed that richard holbrooke u.s. special representative to afghanistan and pakistan has died. the 69-year-old suffered a torn aorta last friday and underwent more than 20 hours of surgery. today calling him a giant of american foreign policy. now back to "hardball." back to "hardball." new york mayor mike bloomberg is many of moderate politicians taking part in the no labels conference in new york, today, along with two other guys. here they are independent governor charles crist of florida joins us and republican congressman bob inglis of south carolina. gentlemen, i want you to both watch something. this was leslie stall interviewing speaker to be john boehner on "60 minutes" last night. i think it's the root of the problem. let's listen. >> you're saying i want common ground but i'm not going to compromise. i don't understand that i really don't. >> when you say the word

"compromise," a lot of americans look up and go, oh, oh, they're going to sell me out. and so finding any common ground, i think, makes more sense. >> why won't you say -- you're afraid of the word. >> i reject the word. >> governor, afraid of the word, reject the word, comparable. why go to washington, just mail it is in if you're going to pose everything. >> it's unbelievable. to have common sense means that you have to compromise. trying to do what's right for the people instead of the party. i think what you see is evidence of the fact that there are fac there's certain segments of both parties that view compromise as a dirty word. if you try to do what's right for the people instead of the party, you may get shunned by your political party. that's what no labels, the meeting we attended today is all about. having the ability to say, look, it's all right to be republican, democrat or independent. but you should suppress your labelling in order to move america forward an do what's right for the country. >> jack kennedy once said, sometimes party loyalty asks too

much. i wonder if you felt that? were there certain things you said, i can't believe i'm going to have to agree with this today? is that what being a party person is it like these days? you have to go with the far right or the far left? >> i think what the governor's talking about, we're trying to repopulate the discussion around -- really cooperation rather than this grudging compromise. what i'd rather see is creative collaboration, rather than this grudging compromise where we pull it out of each other. the reality is, conservatives like my party, we have a lot to offer this country about wealth creation. liberals have something to offer by way of fairness and fair rules of the road. you get both of those together and pull the best out of both parties, then we can move america forward. not left, not right, just forward. >> well, that sounds like msnbc. let me go to governor crist here

lean forward, let me ask you about this thing? it seems to me you have a label. you're an eisenhower republican. so are you, mr. inglis. an eisenhower republican was not too big on the right wing social issues. strong defense. why don't you say you're eisenhower republicans, instead of pretending you don't have a label. even bloomberg fits that category? >> i think that's true. >> a rockefeller republican. >> even a reagan republican. >> no, no, you're not a reagan republican. >> he understood civility, which is important. he and tip o'neill, who was speaker during much of his term probably didn't agree on much of anything, yet they had the common sense, if you will, and the civility to be able to get together after hours and have a cold one. we have to get back to that point where there can be

personal relationships, where some people in one party and those in another party are really treated as traitors if they dare to break bread with somebody else. especially in this season, that's not the right thing to do. we need to come together for the country and put the country ahead of the party. in order for the people to be victorious in the end. >> you're talking about a book i'm going to right some day, it's all true about those two guys. a lot of people are talking about bloomberg, including mike bloomberg. i want you to watch what he said when he was asked by david gregory, the key question on "meet the press" yesterday. >> if i came to you and said, you know, mr. mayor, we've taken a hard look at this, we think this would not just be a vanity play, we think you could win this thing. would you change your mind? >> no. >> no way, no how? >> no way, no how. >> what do you think? you were there with him today? >> it didn't sound like -- it

sounded like he was committed to this concept of new labels where we pull the vest out of both parties. by the way, chris, something the governor said about the reagan republicans. reagan believed that the best days were still ahead. and he's very optimistic. i'm not sure he could have won in this primary environment we faced in the midterms. it's -- the electorate was really in the primaries, much more down on america. >> thank you so much bob inglis. good luck with your career as you develop it now having escaped republican politics. the same with you governor crist. when we return, let me finish with the remarkable return to the white house of bill clinton. and what it means for barack obama. what a duo, what a duet. duracell batteries. and if you think all batteries are the same, consider this: these batteries are going... to the mattel children's hospital, u.c.l.a . because here they use the most...

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let me finish tonight with that incredible american scene from late friday. bill clinton and barack obama together in what i'm convinced is the most vital political alliance in the country. obama and the clintons. hillary and bill both have forged a political bond that's working for the country, the political party and them. it was forged initially in denver in the summer of '08, the rousing festival of unity and excitement. was upgraded with obama asking hillary clinton to be his secretary much state. an offer backed up by bill

clinton's strong endorsement. he wanted her to accept, seeing the duty and global stature she would obtain. the president's people wanted help in three vital states for 2012, florida, ohio and colorado. they asked bill to hit those states and he did. he spent his additional time on the stump traveling for candidates who helped hillary in 2008. then came this past friday, bill clinton arrived at the white house, met with the president. from there the two men met with the presidential briefing room to meet the press. bill clinton gave a full throated endorsement on the bipartisanompromise on taxes president obama had struck. when president obama felt he spent enough time making his points, he left the lectern to clinton. clinton a master of detail hung in there, obviously enjoying the moment. but obviously showing he has indeed been spending an hour a day on econo